Karl

Moving that far as kind of more of an advanced practice, a deeper plunge. If you want to start working with shadows, I would suggest using them to, at first, to simply let your awareness shift a bit. It's kind of a relaxing feeling, where suddenly "new stuff" leaks in, like things shift or fill in. I don't think most could touch on the shadow world without a good amount of practice, simply because it's a bit further away than the nearby movements of awareness.

Hi Jonothon, Certainly, the traditional view was that you would be called to it or born into a family tradition. Sometimes those callings could be dramatic, but they can just be something that you "need" to pursue, no matter what. If you feel in your heart that this is something you need to look into, then you should. You reach a point where it becomes about being true to yourself or not. I have seen people fight that need or calling, and it can be really tough to try and walk away from it if it's a deeply rooted thing. In this modern age, I think it can manifest itself in a more subtle fashion. Our energy sometimes takes note of a bigger picture. Some people's energy, upon realizing there's a bigger "thing" out there, can't really let it go. It's like suddenly knowing there's a second room in a house where it always thought there was only one room. Then notice there's a third room.. a fourth - even another house! A lot of people out there, their selves just shrugs their shoulders and moves on, but in some people there's a seed planted that won't go away. I don't know if shamanism is the path for people like that, but, to me, that is what shamanism is about exploring: the unknown side of reality. The only people I would tell that they should do shamanism are the ones where you can see that walking away from it would cause them harm. There are people like that, though not many. For almost everybody else, it's a personal decision you come to, maybe over many years, or maybe over a few days. I spent a lot of time looking for the path that "fit" me, but I found it - it happened to be shamanism, and specifically, a contemporary path. It's been the only thing i ever found that "fit" me. -karl

Sorry to hear that - are there places you could go to, nearby, where similar-minded people might hang out? Everybody needs people to talk to..

Great! I've seen a lot of people do the recap (seriously), and it's always a difficult road, with ups and downs. But I've never seen anybody who truly intended to succeed in it fail. Sometimes, we need to let go of our need for it to work right now, or a certain way. It has its own momentum and direction and timing. The important thing is to hold our intent to heal ourselves and recover our energy through it all.

You're welcome. Please keep in mind that it's a long process, with steps forwards and backwards, so don't be too hard on yourself. Sometimes, we need to learn to feel compassion for ourselves, more than anybody else. Something you learn when you start delving into patterns, especially deeply personal and/or life-long patterns, is that they bite back when you try to change them. They will kind of fight you and try to make you understand that you're the way you meant yourself to be - why bother changing anything? It's soooo hard. You're better off not ever thinking about changing - it's pointless. If you go into it with an unyielding intent to change, and understand that it's going to take its sweet time, but you don't care, that you're going to get there even if it takes a long time, it will happen, bit by bit. You built your current self up over a long time. It's going to take time and effort to change it, and being too hard on yourself only will get in the way.

If it comes in like "snapping back" into a form, those are patterns, habit of thought, etc. coming to the front. Those patterns are formed out of emotional energy and intent over the years of repetition, sort of like wearing a path or a groove into dirt by walking it a lot. Think of them as solidified thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams, fears, and, of course, intent that you "snap into" when presented with the appropriate venue or triggers. It's made up of your own energy, like building your own walls, and while that energy is in there, it both locks you into those patterns as well as not being available for other things. We present a lot of tools to work with those, but the main one is the recap. You can also work energy free through things like stalking practices, but the best and most comprehensive tool is to unwind that solidified energy and take it back through the recap. Dealing with intrusive thoughts and stuff is especially difficult, because you feel kind of helpless. It feels very hard to change, and it is hard to change, but change comes through a lot of small steps and small bits of energy you retrieve through personal healing. If you set an intent to change it, if you work that boring ol' recap exercise daily for 15 minutes, recapping the day, it will start to give way. The parts of you that are stuck in those patterns are not stronger than the whole of you.

Confilid, First of all, it sucks that you went through what you had to go through. That sort of thing leaves deep scars. You received some good spiritual things out of it, but they will be mixed up within you with the trauma, until you sort it out. For that reason, I would expect things to be a bumpy ride getting there. Don't be too hard on yourself when you hit those bumps. A deep spiritual path is already personally difficult, and mixing in your relationship stuff is going to make it more complicated than that. It will take a lot of personal patience on your part, so don't judge yourself too hard when you hit some difficulties. On all spiritual paths, the question of if it's "the truth" isn't the real question. The real question is whether it's "the truth" for you. What works for you, how you see and experience things, what helps you make sense of everything, could be very different than for the next person. People who tell you, "no, no, THIS is what is really the truth - how things REALLY are", they are selling you. This is true for religious and spiritual paths, but double for shamanism. In shamanism, it's all a a personal experience and a personal journey. What you experience follows no scripts, and not really any rules. For the shaman, it's vital that we be clear on what we experience for ourselves, but it still remains a subjective experience. When we learn to connect to the outside world, through seeing, healing, etc., then we need to validate what we see, understand it and verify it, but it still remains a personal experience. On to your questions: 1) if you find a particular way of doing things isn't working, I would suggest switching things up, or trying something different. Perhaps the way things used to work a certain way, now work differently. In shamanism it's important to not get too set into a particular modality of doing things - we need to remain flexible to circumstances, including ourselves. 2) shamanism isn't a "belief system" - it's not a religion. It's not a matter of belief so much as a matter of experiences. It's important to make sure that the path we're on matches our experiences, that what we're doing and feeling and seeing is shamanic in nature, of course. We can't simply put ourselves out there and say, "OK, universe, I'm just going to understand you directly. Hit me with it all!" If it were that easy, everybody would just "do it". Humans, even shamanically-inclined humans, have certain ways of thinking and approaching stuff which keeps us separate from "everything at once" - that's why shamanism exists, to give us a framework to go beyond our normal selves, to experience the universe in a different way. There's no sidestepping having to do that through a process. If somebody could experience it just by trying hard, they would probably be very, very insane. 3) I think the only true gauge for what works is a personal one. You have to ask yourself if this is working for you, if this is what you need to do, this way. There's nothing wrong with seeing what's out there and finding the path that matches you. The key is finding the "path with heart" - the path that is your personal journey, the one you're meant to walk and choose to walk. It is usually one of the hardest ones. The easy ones don't lead anywhere. What is it for you? I think you can tell it when it feels natural to you, like it "fits". It doesn't mean it's easy. Shamanism is not the only path out there, and it wouldn't suit most people out there, but the ones it does feel like it was meant for them. -karl

Welcome, Taloy. I'm not familiar with them, but perhaps somebody is..

Sounds like a plan! If you have further questions or thoughts, just put them here

KAF, In my experience, those types of dreaming experiences are things which often happen with people who have tendencies to move during dreaming shamanically. Back to your original question, this does seem to be possibly related to shamanism. Some people just move naturally that way - it doesn't mean you want or need to pursue a shamanic path. It might mean that you just have that inclination, or tendency, to do so during dreaming. In the old days, having the same (or very similar) dream three times was considered significant, especially if it was precognitive. However, it's easy to tend to obsess about such things and try to figure them out. If the meaning isn't clear yet, I think it's better to maintain a watchful intent to understand it and recognize it, should you come across the world. Sometimes, even shamanic dreaming practitioners have three similar dreams that aren't connected, or it's not anything useful. I would feel more driven to find out more about the three dreams should the feeling in those particular dreamings or upon waking up be that it's something you really "need" to know, or that it feels important. Our dreaming energy can guide us to things which are important in dreaming in a way that the wakeful mind doesn't let us. This dreaming stuff could be something where you just go, "Hmmmm, interesting." and move on with your life, or it could be something you pursue actively. Hope that helps! -karl

Those dreaming experiences all sound typical of shamanic dreams. Have you had any control of the dreams other than when you're lucid in them? Like, if you wanted to dream a particular thing, or have a particular type of dream, could you do that?

A definition: lucid dreaming is normal (or semi-normal) consciousness during dreaming. In our tradition, consciousness during dreaming isn't necessary (or maybe desirable) to use or progress dreaming shamanically. Normal consciousness brings back a sense of normal dreaming energy (and therefore normal dreaming energy) back into the dream. It's difficult to then use the dreaming in a shamanic way. Using dreaming in a shamanic way would be things like setting a dreaming intent, dreaming outside yourself, moving dreaming energy into the world, etc. It's possible to do that lucidly, but it's often more difficult. Controlling the dreaming intent is completely separate from lucidity in dreaming. The intent of dreaming has nothing to do with consciousness in dreaming, if that makes sense. Lucid dreaming has other uses, of course - you can just have fun and explore, use it to overcome trauma, take control of nightmares, etc. Many people can dream lucidly and use it shamanically at the same time, but people who don't do that naturally often mistake lucidity for dreaming energy control. Lucidity is about the mind in dreaming, and not the dreaming energy. The dreaming energy is what we're interested in as shamans. What I was suggesting to KAF about changing programming is a kind of dreaming intent, with the idea of changing how the dreams are working for him. Changing the setting or dream is a way of taking control of it, and maybe switching things up. When you switch things up, you can create openings and opportunities for new "stuff" - insight, skills, knowledge, etc. Hope that clears up what I meant! -karl

Kaf, I don't really believe or use dream interpretation - as in, analyzing the imagery according to a list of symbols. Seems to me to be a "seeking" theme, as in looking for something. Perhaps it's also your energy moving or traveling around, trying to explore or find something. One thing you could do is try to intend to do something in the dreams. For example, you could intend to stop and observe something in particular, like doors or windows or people (if there are any there). Since you're already moving in your dreaming energy, it might shift it from being sort of a movie script into something more dynamic, more shamanic. It could also switch you to a lucid dream, since you have done that. We don't generally work a lot with lucid dreaming (normal consciousness in dreaming isn't super interesting in a shamanic sense), but a change to the program might be good to let it switch to something newer. Maybe other people will have some thoughts, too..

hi KAF, What does it feel like when you're in the house dreams, different than normal, or especially notable? What about right before when you go to bed, or wake up after? If you think about the day(s) preceding the dreams a bit, does anything come to mind that's different or unusual? Also, can you explain the dream in a bit more detail, like how you move or feel, or what you see - what would be typical?

I'm going to attempt the forum upgrade again soon, possibly tonight. One of the changes in the forum with the software upgrade is that your login name (what you put in the login box) and your display name (what your posts show "you" as) are going to be merged into the same thing, which is your login name. If you would like your login name changed as a result, please PM me. During the upgrade, the forum may be unavailable or show in maintenance mode. This will hopefully be temporary. -karl

Hi staton, can you provide some more information about what's going with you?

If the usual remedies for feeling better aren't working, then there might be a new/hidden issue which you want to look at. Often, we don't really want to pay attention to what's really wrong, because it involves making decisions.

Hey Colin, I would also check out the topics of depression. While it's often associated with 'sad', depression can also manifest as a limiting of positive emotions. The source of depression is often a conflict of intents, stagnation. (This is different than clinical depression, which is something else) You might take a look at the intents you're holding, such as where you wanted to be a few years ago, where you felt your life and things were moving to, and see if those are still true. Are they blocked by something? Do you need to change up some stuff?

Valentine, Visualizing is a tool to help you focus energy before learning how to work with it directly. Like any tool, it's not necessary to use it - many people find it helpful (at first), but it's not necessary. I would keep an open mind as far as trying it, if other techniques or tools aren't working. We don't do a lot of visualizing in this tradition, but sometimes it's helpful. In Maker terminology, what's left after you aren't "you" anymore is what we call awareness. So, yes, it's possible to experience it. Shamanically, it's important to experience it at points. Thoughts have nothing to do with "you", if you're purely in awareness. Stalking can be done at several levels and purposes. In what we call stalking the self, you apply your intent to hold a different position, a different "you", to accomplish that intent. This requires being able to move to a new point (what we would call fluidity) and hold it (through intent). Both of those things are difficult. Done correctly, you don't so much have a different "personality" (which is purely a mental thing) as much as a different "you" - which encompasses not only thoughts, but also emotions, world view, etc. Here's an example of stalking yourself: Let's say you need to speak in front of a lot of people at your job or school, and it's something that's terrifying for you. Call that "you #1". Your intent would be to successfully give that speech, but being the way you are normally (#1), it's impossible. You'd fall on your face out of fear, mess it up. To accomplish that intent, you need to be a different person, if only for that period of time. Let's call that "you #2". So, why can't you just be #2 when you need to be? Some people are fluid enough, with or without control, that they simply can do that, very well, without much training. It's just how they're put together. Most of us, we'd need to break apart "you #1" enough that we could even change to anything else. That, we accomplish through recapitulation, smaller stalking exercises, and other practices. Once things start to be a bit fluid, we have to practice creating that "you #2" position in our energy. Again, there's a number of ways to do it, but it involves in becoming good at shifting our energy, seeing the world differently, acting differently - and most importantly, holding the intent clearly. This is often where people who are naturally fluid have trouble - they can be something else, sure, but can they do it deliberately? Many of them need to practice that a lot. Once you have those pieces, then you can put them together and accomplish the intent.

I've never seen that particular thing. What do you think it means to you?

I would say, try to feel out what you should do with them. It would make sense to either pass them on (or to hold to pass them on to the right person), or to take back the energy in them. I've found with things like that, if it's going to go on to somebody else, that you will definitely know when you find that person and the right time. You can do the same with the contents individually, if you feel they should be handled separately (or some of them). Sometimes, the set of tools you've worked with aren't the right ones for the next person.

"Real" empaths - that is, people who deal with the consequences of empathic feelings they can't control or turn off - know it's a very tough issue to deal with. They'll never be at the party all, like, "ommggggg I'm just soooo empathic, y'all." More like huddled in a dark corner. With some hard personal work it can get a lot better, and even become a strength.

I haven't noticed that, myself, though that doesn't mean it's not true for other people. I've found the solar changes to be good for working with intents, as all four of the major events are shifts in the natural cycle.

Makes sense that some stories are just very personal in some way. Sometimes, shamanic things are personal in a way that isn't really "shareable" like other things are. Or, as Mark says, they impact you a certain way. You might change yourself or assimilate them more to make it easier to talk about.

Yeah, just keep on practicing.. you'll have more luck over time