Maker cosmology -- individual incarnation

[douglas]

Question: Past lives -- yes?

Is life in this world a school, and an individual has many incarnations here as he or she learns (or fails and repeats) certain specific lessons?

Or no?

[Karl]

In the Makers view, human energy does come back, but in fragments. So, no total reincarnation, but bits of all of us have been here before.

 

That's separate from the view of karma, which doesn't exist in the Makers cosmology as such. The parts of us that have been here before, they are imprinted a bit with their history, and therefore some patterns can repeat. However, there's no point to the patterns or debt that has to be paid off. They are simply patterns which because they have happened before can influence us again.

 

The effect is small compared to our personal history in this life, but in specific cases it can be very significant. The energies from our past have importance to the shamanic view because we are born with them - they are part of us "originally", as we were formed into this world, which is different than things we accumulated since that point at our personal beginning.

[douglas]

What of "this life is a school"? -- We each come into this world with individual lesson(s) to learn. -- yes? no?

[cyfnos]

We all have free will so it really depends of you, is it your intend to learn something?

 

 

Hey, and the graduation party is at the cemetery lol, sorry a little maker humor.

 

 

Cyfnos

[Karl]

What of "this life is a school"? -- We each come into this world with individual lesson(s) to learn. -- yes? no?

 

I think in that viewpoint, you are always dealing with the implication that there's "something" out there which is guiding us, some outside meaning to things. If you are bad in some karmic sense, then why does that matter? What out there cares? If it's ourselves, what part of ourselves cares, exactly? Often it's paired with what is called our "higher selves", some part we can't access but are supposed to, or sometimes, some sort of god or higher being.

 

What is "good" from that viewpoint? What is "bad"? What decides which is which? What is the point of 'lessons'? Usually it's something the person in question doesn't really know, it's whatever you (or somebody else) wants it to be.

 

In the Maker cosmology, the answer is that there's no point, there's no "lessons" - or you could say there is a point, but the point is too big to mean much as a person. Everything in the universe is helping the universe learn about itself, like learning a dance by dancing. We're just (very) small pieces of that dance, small dancers on the stage. Almost so small we're irrelevant, but not quite. We do matter, in a very, very tiny way.

 

There's no lessons in any sense from a universal point of view, but individually, there are a lot of things to evaluate and learn. How we choose to do things impacts our life, there are consequences to doing things one way or another. Whether we are ignorant of those or not, actions create results.

 

Over time, those lessons influence our energy, and they still remain when our energy returns - but not in any karmic sense.

[douglas]

Thank you both very much.

I'll continue this line of questions (even though I may have the sense of what your answers will be).

I hope I'll continue to get responses.

 

Individual destiny? The Universe has a specific plan for each person?

(Both really mean "my destiny" and "the plan for my life.") Seems rather self-centered doesn't it?

[Karl]

There's an open question whether whatever drives the universe is blind or not-blind, though both are at a scale where 'plan for me, specifically' is much too small to be a concern. I think you can believe either way.

 

You run into problems where you remove your own power in making choices, or distort the choice as visible to you into something it's not. Often things like karma or "the universal plan" or "fate" in conversations are really removing your own ability to look at things clearly, or decide things going forward.

 

Having said that, sometimes things are set up or proceeding in a way where it feels very similar to there's a path laid out for you. There is energy and intent at work out there, which while not the universe choosing things for you, can seem like something which is just happening to you. It's difficult to separate all the things into what's really going on. One reason why looking at things purely in terms of intent is so helpful.

 

For example, my own journey to shamanism, I don't think the universe set out a path for me to find it, or that I was meant to do it, or that it was part of some plan, or fate. But looking at my own energy, the way I personally was created in the world and my energy moved in it, I was probably inevitably going to find myself at the crossroads of shamanism, in one form or another.

 

In years gone by, some people might have talked about it being chosen, or the path choosing me. I can understand that viewpoint, but in my view, a more nuanced look at it really puts the intent to find the path squarely on my own energy. If people saw it another way, I won't say they're wrong, because it is another way to see things. You have to find the ways for yourself on how you see things that work for you.

[Beth]

I agree with what Karl said. The choice of what to believe is yours, of course, but the Makers take responsibility for all of their own choices, intents, and actions. Nothing I do is decided by, or put upon me by, anything outside of myself. It is the only way for me to retain any fluidity in my existence.

[douglas]

Thank you much to all three of you.

[douglas]

So, from the Maker cosmological point of view "direction" or "guidance" come from the individual. There is no deity, personal Creator, or even universal intelligence. Correct?

(If I remember right, Niteshad wrote that the energy of the universe is not sentient.)

[ralph]

Hi Douglas,

 

The maker's tradition has a lot to do with Personal Power. You can see it as the Power you have over your own life, taking full responsibility for it as opposed to fate.

 

That doesn't mean there aren't beings in the universe whose consciousness is far beyond what we can imagine, it's just that they respect the spark of energy and intent given to us or more probably they just don't care.

 

Think about it this way : Would you stop to give guidance to an ant ?

[silenceseeker]

Hi Douglas,

 

I would like to add that there are theistic and non-theistic Makers. Niteshad is a non-theistic Maker. I believe what he meant by what you read is not that the underlying energy of the universe is not sentient, it is, it's very sentient and how everything is connected and it has its own universal intents. It's just that in the non-theistic view, there is not a divine purpose for humanity or anything else, although the theistic Makers view holds that there is. But even in this view, the purpose is nothing like a guidance in the sense that some religions hold. Your free will taps into the Personal Power that Ralph wrote about. Such freedom can be terrifying to confront but there it is, do with it what you will.

 

Lorrie

[Moonshadow]

Hi Douglas,

 

I personally have perceived that there are intelligences in the universe that are greater than me, and that I'm not fully familiar with what they are yet, but I suppose other paradigms of other individuals would use the signifier "God"- although it is such a blanket term to me. I do think there is a design in the universe that is greater than me as an individual, but that I am a part of too, and as a Maker I add my own footsteps to the design and evolution of the universe. It isn't in conflict with what I am or what power I wield.

 

For example, before coming to the cave, when I used to have a prophetic dream or a moment of 'seeing' (aka clairvoyance but we say 'seeing' - long story), I believed that an external force allowed me to have that extra ordinary ability. If I went to another dimension in dreaming, I thought a higher force lead me there and 'allowed me' that experience. But I did that all on my own, with my own power, and not because a greater power enabled me to do so.

 

I can tell you that the teachings here really don't focus on looking outside of you for answers, but focus on universal energetic laws that help you heal, become, tap into your own infinite potential in a tradition and practices that are outside the discourse of religion and God. It is about learning to stand and your own power, and becoming powerful to act and create. Because it is a tradition and not a religion, there isn't really an emphasis on a higher creator here it's just not part of the conversation per se, although it is a question everyone usually comes to

 

There are people here at the cave who come from backgrounds of various religious exposures-- including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc., but the Maker tradition has nothing to do with religion but energy and the individual Maker, who through their own initiatives become active co-creators in this ever-evolving multi-universe creation we are a part of. I feel it transcends the God / religion relationship.

 

 

Mandy

[Beth]

Hi Douglas -

 

I am a non-theistic Maker. I see myriad other "intelligences" and "experienceRs" out there, though I don't see them as necessarily any greater or lesser than my own way of being. In my own experience, there is no *real* hierarchy - only infinite variation, and some extremely different things. There are orders of predation, but all things seem to cycle around again so that what appears to be the top of the food chain also has something that preys upon it. These are tough questions to contemplate, but each must come to her/his own understanding of what s/he "sees." As you will note, we are all individuals, each serving in a different way in a different place, but all of us serving.

 

Beth

[douglas]

Hello and a big "thank you" to all who chimed in on this last week.

 

I read every reply soon after it was posted. Between being busy with other things and the desire to NOT unleash a flood of words, I've waited till now to acknowledge your input.

It's almost hard to believe how much of each post spoke my heart. Perhaps gained some clarity. Feel less alone.

The articles on the website already had me feeling a little bit at home here; the responses to my questions have deepened that feeling.

 

Anyway, enough words. Thanks again to you all.

 

 

d.